Episode Transcript
[00:00:10] ANDY: Hello and welcome to the DreamSwarm podcast. This is your home for supernatural film, stories and art. I'm your host, magic realist filmmaker Andy Mark Simpson.
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Hello, everyone. Welcome to the next episode of Dreamswarm. It's really good to have a returning star back to this show, and we're going to speak today to author Alex Beaumont. So, morning, Alex.
[00:00:40] ALEXANDRA BEAUMONT: Good morning, Andy. Nice to be here again.
[00:00:42] ANDY: So it's been a little while since you were last on, and I know it's a while since we've had an episode out with DreamSwarm, but it's really good to have you back because I know you've been really busy at the moment, and you've got a new book out just this month, so we're looking forward to hearing all about that. And that's called 'Dissonance of Birdsong'. We're going to be talking about that a lot during this episode. But first I wondered if you could kind of give us another introduction to yourself and who you are and what you do.
[00:01:09] ALEXANDRA BEAUMONT: So I'm Alexandra Beaumont. I'm a folklore fantasy author, so that means I'm taking the really raw and primal myths of different places. A lot of this is UK focused for me, but really sort of taking those nature, those folklore stories, those old sort of beliefs people had, and sort of mashing them into a fantasy setting to make these really vibrant and story and character driven worlds. I have two books. I have testament of the stars, which is based on Tudor astrology and turned into a magic system where people worship the stars, but some people hate the stars. And so there's a civil war about what is right to do in this space. And then I have 'Dissonance of Birdsong', out now, and that's based on ancient Cornish bird folklore. It's set in the Bronze Age, and it's very much this raw and very primal, nature based folklore fantasy, which is where most of my writing tends to go. I'm also fresh back from Worldcon, so since we spoke last, I've actually been doing a lot more events. So that's been quite exciting and very busy.
[00:02:13] ANDY: That's good that you've got these events, because those connections and talking and just sharing stories and sharing conversations with people who are into the same thing as you in love folklore and love fantasy and. And writing in the same way. We could talk then about 'Dissonance of Birdsong', which is your new book, which is out this month at the moment. So I suggest people come and check that out. Could you tell us briefly what it's about? What's the kind of logline, the synopsis of it?
[00:02:43] ALEXANDRA BEAUMONT: Sure. So, 'Dissonance of Birdsong' is set in a harsh and stormy coast where people survive by inhaling the magical mist that they can only find in the lungs of birds. These birds are migratory, and they come only in spring, but the mist is running out, and so fewer and fewer birds are returning every spring. And the main character, Ezeld, uses this mist to weave song, magic, charm people, basically, but most people use it to survive. And as it runs out, less and less people are surviving, and so more and more people are being sent to the mines, out of the way. But Ezeld doesn't accept this. She basically goes on this adventure to try and find out why the mist is running out before her sister gets exiled. So this is really a story about finding identity, sort of struggling in the face of sort of challenge, and sort of adapting to survive. And I wrote this really because at the time of writing, I was going through a diagnosis for chronic sinusitis, and I wanted to write a story about someone who was really focusing on that sort of thing, sort of struggling with that sort of thing, coming to terms with her identity when she wasn't as strong as she thought she should be, and yet still trying to do everything she needed to do to help the people she loved survive.
[00:04:00] ANDY: It sounds like also that there's a lot of, something about resources and the environment seems to feed into there as well. Change in patterns of bird migration, for example, but also how people use the resources and the scarcity and the kind of maybe inequalities of how they get shared. Do you feel that that kind of fed into there?
[00:04:21] ALEXANDRA BEAUMONT: Yeah, it definitely did. Resource scarcity and contested resources is something that I think can be done really well in fantasy and Sci-Fi you see it quite a lot with sort of just looking at how humans interact with nature. I mean, I think as we go further on into sort of a stage of humanity's existence on this world, where we really are now starting to see the impacts of sort of scarcity in some places, I think it's a really helpful and interesting sort of mirror to hold up to reality, to be able to sort of talk about how people respond when things start to run out. It was an interesting human experiment for me as well, to kind of test some of those ideas.
[00:05:01] ANDY: Just talking about fantasy and Sci-Fi you mentioned as well, is that part of the role of a fantasy book is that it creates a world, and a new world, but it's a comment on society now. And do you think that's one of the main functions of that genre?
[00:05:18] ALEXANDRA BEAUMONT: I think it is a genre that can do really well in that space. Right. It doesn't have to be. I mean, there are obviously some fantasies that aren't doing that at all, but I think a lot of fantasy does. I was thinking about this over the weekend when I was at Worldcon, which is a big Sci-Fi and fantasy convention for those who don't know. And at WorldCon, I listened to quite a few panels about the relationship between royalty and less royal people in fantasy books and things like that. And I was thinking about this in terms of, like, how we write progressive fantasy fiction in the space and move away from, like, an idea ideal that people always have to keep the royal line going and that sort of thing. And that's something I tried to do in 'Testament of the Stars', actually. Like, one of the things that was quite interesting for me about that is I changed how marriage worked. I've had four different types of marriage, depending on whether it was like a marriage for political reasons. You chose that option, or a marriage for love was an option. A marriage purely because you wanted to have a child was an option. And so it was kind of trying to move away from this idea that marriage is just there for hereditary spawn, if you like. So, yeah, I think there's a lot that you can do through fantasy that then sort of mirrors the issues and topics that people are talking about in the real world.
[00:06:39] ANDY: Yeah. So kind of like breaking those things down, critiquing those things and marriage as an institution, royalty as an institution. And, yeah, it's not all about princes and princesses or things like the chosen one I know, is a big kind of discussion in fantasy, and that you, you inherit some kind of magic power that makes you that. Whereas, you know, other people are saying, what if it's about the bravery you have within and everyone makes their own choices and becomes their own hero.
[00:07:07] ALEXANDRA BEAUMONT: Absolutely nothing annoys me more than fantasy that relies heavily on the chosen one trope. I think it's really overdone and old and we should move away from it. I prefer books where ordinary people do things because they feel like they have to or feel like they want to or feel like they're inspired to make things better. I think as soon as you introduce a chosen one trope, it's a bit like, well, this magical person feels like they have all this entitlement and power and wonderment. Wonderment to do all of these things. And actually, isn't it better when someone does it, even though it's hard, even though they don't have the silver spoon that helps them do it? For me, that's better. Right? What do you think?
[00:07:47] ANDY: Yeah, that feels right to me. It's the way I think of the world as well, critiquing those who, in society, we do get people who seem to be the chosen one. But what if we look to ordinary people and stories and their stories, and that anyone can make their lives better or fight for something they believe in. Yeah, I like that kind of idea of critiquing things. Thinking again of 'Dissonance of Birdsong', what other influences were in there? This one's set in Cornwall, set in the Bronze Age, and an imagined magic extra within the Bronze Age. Bronze Age, but it's still set in a real place. How much was Cornwall an influence? The kind of modern Cornwall, the landscape of Cornwall, how much did that influence the book?
[00:08:30] ALEXANDRA BEAUMONT: Quite a lot, unsurprisingly. So a lot of what I tried to do with this was bring that really raw vibrancy of the Cornish coast out and sort of mix that with minds, because I think there's quite juxtaposition in Cornwall between the life of above ground and a life underground. And that's quite relevant, I think, for a lot of people. And I spent a lot of time as a kid in Cornwall. It was a very special place to my mum, and she grew up a bit there and things like that. And so she would always talk about this vibrancy of the land, all these stories, and there was like this breathless quality to it, this sort of really, like, primal sense of how people view the land there. And then when they go underground, it's like, to mine, there was all these stories that people would tell about that to help them survive or make sense of it and things like that. It just felt so rich and special to me that I just needed to infuse that into a book.
[00:09:31] ANDY: And I know folklore is an influence on all your books, so a lot of your other writing as well. So in 'Testament of the Stars', it was the kind of folklore of stars in the Elizabethan era, and then folklore of birds in this one. And I know because I follow you on twitter, and you're very knowledgeable about folklore, and you share lots of things about it. So I was reading a review talking about how the folklore of birds in Cornwall is very important in this. I wasn't aware myself, even though I love folklore, I'm not that familiar with Cornish bird folklore. So what kind of pieces were there in there that were an influence?
[00:10:05] ALEXANDRA BEAUMONT: So there's this belief that King Arthur was reincarnated as a chough, which is a kind of Cornish crow. And that really got me thinking. I thought it was just quite interesting, this idea that birds could be people in some sort of way, like they might take on the personality of someone else or something like that. And so it got me thinking about this symbiotic relationship between humans and birds. And I thought, well, what if everyone in the nest where I set this, the name of the village where they live, the people all live? What if everyone in the nest needs this birdhouse needs a bird, and without a human, the birds suffer? Without a bird, the humans suffer? And I just thought that was really interesting and sort of built upon this idea that this King Arthur thing, as I mentioned, but also there was this belief that dead sailors would sometimes inhabit seabirds and things like that. So, yeah, there's just this sort of thing about seeing birds as, like, more than just birds. And I wanted that very much in there. And if you read dissonance of birdsong, you'll see that when people were with their birds, they treat them as almost like this sacred entity, this extension of themselves. And that was just really fun to play with, to be honest.
[00:11:24] ANDY: Yeah, I love the sound of that and that kind of care for the animal there. But also what's interesting is you've taken a piece of folklore, and I love folklore and I love writing, but I think there's a. There's a big difference or a big challenge in taking a bit like that, or King Arthur reincarnated as a chough, or a sailor reincarnated as a seagull. But to then take that from, oh, that's interesting to what would I do with that character? What, what's next? What's the challenge for them? And turn that into a story is a very different challenge to listening to the folklore about it. So how did you go about kind of building the characters around that or building the story around that?
[00:12:04] ALEXANDRA BEAUMONT: Sort of came bit by bit with this one, actually, which is different to 'Testament of the Stars', because I knew for 'Testament of the Stars', I wanted to tell this story about star crossed lovers. For 'Dissonance...' it was much more like I knew I wanted a story about someone with chronic illness. I knew I wanted them to try and, like, escape to the sea to cure it. And that's a bit of a spoiler, but it happens quite early. But, yeah, I knew that I wanted them to sort of like, have this really special relationship with the sea. And so I kind of took those ideas and then sort of, I thought, because I'd learnt a lot between writing testament and writing dissonance, I thought there needs to be two or three sort of real big hooks of what Ezeld really cares about. And one of them was like this, saving the birds. One of them was getting to the sea and that. But then I wanted a way to show the impact of what happened with the birds that wasn't necessarily just about her, because otherwise you just have this kind of quite bland narrative where it's just someone monologuing about themselves. So I realized I had to sort of make her sister or someone dear to her, and which really be affected by what happens to the birds in the book. So, yeah, so going from that, I sort of knew that there needed to be these sort of conflict points. And that just helps me sort of build the story out from there, really. And then, yeah, I think the thing with all of this that I always say, when people say, well, how do you come up with these ideas? I always say, well, you need to take a couple of things that you really love in terms of concepts and then stick them in a metaphorical blender and whizz it up and see what comes out the other end. And for this, for me, I think it was very much like the bird folklore in the Cornish space, and this idea about the very human reaction to contested resources and that together just kind of really started to flesh out a bit of a story, because then I could think about how different people would react.
[00:13:56] ANDY: Yeah, that sounds really creative. So taking things that you love, like the folklore, and then things you care about, and go, what if I put those together? Does that work? Do they play off each other? Is there a story? And like you say, why do the characters care? And you've thought of reasons why they care about these resources, and it's not just for themselves, it's for other people. And developing the story from there, it sounds really good.
[00:14:18] ALEXANDRA BEAUMONT: Thank you. I hope so.
[00:14:20] ANDY: So that's a really good tip for writers, is to take ideas that you like, things you're interested in, and try and kind of mash them together, blend them together and see what happens. And I guess that's an exercise we could all do on a daily basis, is just make a list of things we like and what happens if you push them together. Would you have any other kind of tips or things that work for you as a writer, that anything else that you've discovered is a helpful way to write.
[00:14:46] ALEXANDRA BEAUMONT: There are two things that I think I've learned a lot since I wrote 'Testament of the Stars', which was, as you know, my debut. I think there's something really about understanding your audience and what you want to do with that and who the people that are going to read your book are, which I think is really tricky in the fantasy space because a lot of people read young adult fantasy. And so when you're pitching a book, it's kind of like, well, it's young adult, but also adults are going to like it and it's kind of adult, but also young adults could read it. It sort of becomes a bit harder to pigeonhole it in that respect. So then you kind of got to make it about the themes that people are interested in. And I think, like, for when I wrote testament, I didn't really think about any of that stuff in as much detail in advance because I was kind of like, well, I'm just going to write the story I want and I might not get published. And who knows? I think the more I know, the more I'm like. I think actually, when you're writing a book, you kind of need to start with a bit of, like, a rubric of the type of person that you're writing for. So that's kind of a bit more of a marketing tip, I guess, rather than an actual writing tip, I think, in terms of sort of actual writing tips, really knowing your style, actually, because a big change for me between 'Testament...' and 'Dissonance...' is I changed from third person into first. And, I mean, I might go back to third one day with something, but I just love writing in first person so much. It's very me. It means I can be lyrical. Someone said to me over the weekend at Worldcon, you need to find which writing style you think you can show off in. Sounds a bit funny to say it, but, like, try lots of different styles. I'd say pick the one that you think you can show off in and use that because chances are your writing will be stronger for it.
[00:16:26] ANDY: That's a really good tip. I was reading a review, with the reviewer saying that the atmosphere created is really intensive, being able to visualize and smell the sea air and all of that. And maybe it's that. Do you think it's possibly that kind of subjective first person point of view that can bring things to life in a way that kind of an objective description standing back or to the side doesn't give you that same feel as when you're in that character's head.
[00:16:54] ALEXANDRA BEAUMONT: Yeah, I think it really depends on the author, to be honest. For me. Yes, that's definitely true. Like, I feel like I can suck a reader in a lot more with that sort of really visceral, lyrical pacey first person. I think I've seen it done really well in third person as well, where people pull you in a bit, but I think it can be a bit more like Bob did this, Bob went there. Bob said that when it's in third person, and I think it can be quite hard to get away from that kind of like slightly repetitive sounding writing. It's not impossible, but I think. Yeah, I think especially when you're having sort of like a multi point of view book, I think one of the things I often observe is that all the characters sound the same. That's sort of quite hard to overcome when you're doing that, I think.
[00:17:44] ANDY: Yeah. So in having your distinctions in characters is a really, it's quite a difficult thing, but it probably goes back to what you were saying about thinking about what those characters value, want. What they're trying to get, what they believe in. And if they have different values, then that should come through in what they're thinking and saying and the voice possibly comes through there as well. Yeah, it's really good. Do you get to read much? I know you're so active in the fantasy world with like, Worldcon, you've been to different conventions. I know you do kind of live action role play as well. How much of a role does reading have in your writing?
[00:18:20] ALEXANDRA BEAUMONT: It's very important to read a lot as a fantasy author. Well, as an author generally, because you need to keep up on what people are doing in your kind of space. And that's important for understanding what's like, commercial at the moment from a very boring business perspective, but also a little bit from knowing what's sort of working well and what's selling is definitely part of it. But I think also knowing where writing styles are, I emerging and things like that, and knowing what you're going to sort of compare your book to when you try and pitch it and that sort of thing, all of that is very important. That said, I do not get as much time as I want and need to read because I work full time and that's a bit of a challenge for me. I have managed to get through some stuff recently which has been good. And I've just started reading a book called 'Queen Macbeth', which. Yeah, is not sort of out and out fantasy, but it's kind of fantasy adjacent, I think. And I'm quite enjoying that so far. So yeah, but it's a huge challenge and I'm trying to write more again now. And that's just another thing.
[00:19:20] ANDY: It is hard matching that reading. Both very time consuming, enjoyable, but time consuming when you're fitting it around with their work as well, which is hard. But think of 'Dissonance of Birdsong' then, it's out this month. Where can people go to get the book?
[00:19:35] ALEXANDRA BEAUMONT: It is on Amazon, as you would expect. It's also on Waterstones, which I'm very excited by. And it's on sort of all of the other places that you tend to look for books. It's on Barnes and Noble. But yeah, I think your main easiest places to get it from would be Amazon and Waterstones.
[00:19:53] ANDY: I know it's via Brigid's Gate Press as well, isn't it? Which also has 'Testament of the Stars' now, I know that's been on a journey, that book, but both books are now published via Brigid's Gate Press as well, which is great. So we can check out 'Dissonance of Birdsong' and 'Testament of the Stars' from the same press. And how can people follow you, Alex? What's the best way to follow your socials and things?
[00:20:18] ALEXANDRA BEAUMONT: Best place to find me is on X, @ABeaumontWriter because that's where I post most of my folklore content. I am also on Instagram and Facebook and Threads now. And BlueSky. There's so many social medias these days. But yes, I would say go for X is the most present one I'm on.
[00:20:37] ANDY: Yeah. So @ABeaumontWriter there. And that's on. But also if you're on BlueSky, we can follow you there. And I know you've got a website as well. So if you type in Alexandra Beaumont, author, I know your your website comes up there as well. Well, this is fantastic, Alex. I hope everyone goes and checks out 'Dissonance of Birdsong'. I'm looking forward to reading it. Thanks very much for the interview.
[00:20:57] ALEXANDRA BEAUMONT: No worries. It's been lovely to be back and nice to talk to you again.
[00:21:05] ANDY: Thank you for joining us for this episode of the DreamSwarm podcast. I've been your host, Andy Mark Simpson. We hope you'll join us for the next one. Remember, you can subscribe to stay in touch with future episodes and follow us at the website www.dreamswarm.org or follow on Twitter and Instagram @DreamSwarm. And we look forward to joining you for more supernatural film stories and art. In the meantime, be creative. Be curious, be kind. We'll see you soon.
